[UPDATE: the Rat On Nantong show has been cancelled due to complications. Very sad news indeed. Nevertheless we’ll go ahead and share this interview as it’s full of great input.]
This Saturday 17th, the underground rats will be gathering in Nantong for a very special edition of Rat On Monthly featuring old-time Punkers The Boys (UK), Round Eye, XXYY and Watch Out!. They’re going to cart us off in a fun bus to Nantong – it’s like the ultimate staycation! Ahead of the show we caught up with Rat On Monthly co-founder Nathan, Round Eye frontman Chachy and even enjoyed the company of co-conspirer F (of Pairs). Together, they gave an inside into how they see things unfolding in the live circuit – at the grassroots level. We begin talking with Nathan about getting your hands dirty in live music. Part 2 features questions concerning Nathan and Chachy’s own perceptions and speculations for the future.
For a more general overview of what Rat On is and how it came about, you can read Scottish Mike’s interview, or this SmartShanghai feature for an inside into Nathan’s breakfasting habits.
Part 1: On Doing Shows in Shanghai
Radar:
- Based on what you’ve said in previous interviews, really anyone with the desire and a certain level of reliability can get involved in live music and put on a successful show. Why aren’t more people doing it? Lack of will? Education? Time?
Nathan
I don’t know why honestly to tell you the truth. Maybe people don’t have the drive that I have with it. All I’ve ever done all my life is worked in either restaurants, cafes, or doing audio/visual at events, so I have a big passion for standing back and sort of looking at it and going “because of me, these 50 people, these 1000 people have had a good night.” I don’t think people realize the reward or understand the reward of that, or how embracing that is.
So I don’t know whether it’s a fear of wondering how hard it actually is, or…a lot of people, whether they think if they’re gonna make a difference whether they put on a night or not, I don’t know. Or do they [assume] that other people will take care of it? I’m not sure, I really don’t know.
It’s actually not that difficult. You can sit down and write to all the press within one afternoon, you can ring and book all the bands within an afternoon, you can do a poster – which to me is probably the hardest aspect, because I’m not good on any of those graphics programs. I’m quite thankful that I’ve got a friend who’s volunteered to do them all for me, and she doesn’t charge me, which is wonderful.
Honestly I can sort of understand it I guess a little bit now with the new policies at Yuyintang. I haven’t booked a band/show there in ages, but if you have a foreign band, you must pay 2000rmb – it’s an upfront cost commitment. And then there’s the 30% they take off the door, so there’s that sort of commitment as well. I guess also for myself, stepping in and working with a lot of the bands for free, I’ve got my foot in the door a little bit with them, I’ve got a bit of rapport and a little bit of payback from a lot of the bands where I can quite genuinely ring up a band and say “hey can you play for me? There might not be much money…blahblah”. But I can imagine maybe a Joe Blow ringing one of the bands up and saying “hey I’m doing a show, I don’t know how much I can pay you, I’ll do the best I can” – maybe that’s a little intimidating to them. My main issue is the lack of work the bands do here. A lot of bands here have a lot of rapport with other bands, so you know, they’ve got no excuse, but I can understand that for a Joe Blow who’s not really involved in any way, putting on a show might be a little difficult and a little intimidating.
Radar
- But of course you’ve got to start somewhere to build those relationships…
Nathan
Yeh exactly, you’ve got to start from somewhere. My relationship all started from doing the very first Pairs show. I saw a little article about the CD release, and there was a line at the bottom “if anyone wants to help out, please contact us”, so I contacted them and that’s how I first met them – at their first CD release. That’s how I got my foot in the door with all the bands.
Radar
- It’s really about trusting the will of others to help out when you ask for help, and not expecting to have to directly give something back in return. Being willing to reach out to people without feeling shy or embarrassed about it.
Nathan
Yeh exactly, which is a little hard I guess. I’ve got a lot of skills – if I ask someone for help I know I can contribute back. I know a lot of people who, if they were maybe to ask me “hey Nathan can you do sound for tonight?”, maybe it’s something they’d feel a bit dubious about because they can’t offer anything back to me. But I’d be quite happy to do it if I can see they’re putting some effort into it. I mean the whole reason I do all of this is because I can’t play an instrument, and I go out there on a Saturday night and I watch all these bands – I know they don’t make money. I know they’re not getting a nickel out of it. They’ve probably spent more money on rehearsal space, and instruments, and pedals and buses and taxis to their gigs than they ever get paid for, so I want to put something back into it – because I can’t play an instrument. And there’s lots of other people who can print t-shirts, or make stickers, or make posters who can help, but I don’t know, it just doesn’t happen.
Radar
- That’s the thing that you can’t explain to people, you have to trust that other people want to help, and that’s what prevents them from trying in the first place. They can’t see how the connections are going to be made.
Nathan
Exactly, too true. That’s one thing that I’m trying to push with Harley’s – Rambo (the owner) doesn’t charge anything, he doesn’t take anything off the door. So if you want to do a free night and not have a ticket on the door, and just have two of your bands play, he’ll do it. He won’t care. It’s a good stepping-stone.
Radar
- For venue owners – say the guys you work with at Void Live House and Harleys – what are their major concerns when you initially reach out to work with them? What are they looking for / trying to avoid?
Nathan
Well, it’s a hard one again. I’ve worked at On Stage, Yuyintang, Temple Bar, Void, VOX and Harley’s, and it’s been a bit different because I’ve generally stepped in and helped out with other shows before I’ve approached them. They know my face, they know what I do and they know the background I come from, but I guess most venues aren’t worried.
I don’t think people understand how hard it is for venues to make money. For instance Rambo at Harley’s, ok he’s got 50 customers down there, people think “god he must be making a lot of money”, but he still has a lot of rent to pay, staff to pay. When I organize a Rat On show, he hands out around 50 beers to all the bands. All he’s looking for is just support – people to come down and not just sit there with a bottle of water.
Radar
- Plus it’s good promo for the venue, it becomes known for having all these cool underground acts on.
Nathan
Yeh, and basically the venues have been pretty cool here – to me anyway.
Radar
- If a brand said ‘we’re willing to give you a bunch of cash to help you get something going, to get a better line-up, what would you say, and under what circumstances?
Nathan
It really depends on the brand I guess. If somebody like Mercedes Benz approached me I’d be a little bit dubious, but I guess if a musical instrument brand, or a sound system brand, or an alcohol brand that fits approached me, I would. I have no problems with it, and I think it’s fine. I’d love some financial help sometimes. But at the same time, I don’t want what I’m doing to suffer. Like if Smirnoff came along and said “we want to give you such and such amount of money but we don’t want any music that’s over this BPM and we want this style of music”…
Radar
- You’re compromising creative control.
Nathan
Yeh I want creative control. This is my baby, if you want to jump on board with my baby, well yeh …I’ll put your logo up and I’ll listen, but I don’t want to sacrifice anything I’m doing. I think that’s why I don’t work with other people as well – when I do stuff, it’s what I want to do.
Radar
- With that said, how did you feel about collaborating with Rhys [formerly of Pairs]?
Nathan
Rhys and I had a really good relationship. I’ve done, god, over a 100-odd shows and done it for 20-odd years, and I’ve told Rhys that he’s probably the best person I’ve ever worked with because he trusted me to manage the technical side of things, and I trusted him to do the media side. The only time we met was when we’d come down the middle and do a poster or do the artwork, and that’s when we’d work together. It worked really fine, he’d never say to me “no Nathan we can’t do this or that”.
Radar
- What have you learnt about Chinese music fans since starting out back in 2010? What do you see when you’re watching your own crowds?
Nathan
The only thing I’ve learnt is that it’s totally unpredictable. We had the Luca Brasi show – for me it was a bit of a nightmare. We had as much promo (that I know of) that you can get. We ended up getting 45 ticket buyers over the door. It’s a Tasmanian punk bad… they were amazing on the stage, absolutely mind-blowing. All the Playful Warrior guys, all the Chaos Mind guys came down because Before The Daylight played, and they were just sat there jaw-dropped. They were so stunned, and I was just standing there mixing going “out of a city of 26 million, 45 people found what I wrote about interesting enough to come down”. You just can’t predict it.
I went to The Fallacy gig a couple of weeks ago; it was me and about 4 other people, and 20 other Chinese kids, and it’s like, this is meant to be some big Beijing band on an album launch, and there’s nothing else on tonight! You just can’t predict it I guess.
Radar
- What about in the way they are actually experiencing the show when they do turn up? Is there a difference in the way they’re actually behaving in the venue, or relating to the artists?
Nathan
There’s still a lot of stand and watch, and there’s still that whole thing of – and I hate to make the distinction – but there’s still that foreigner engagement / Chinese stand back and sort of, uncomfortably not really know how to…you know you’ll get the bands that they’ll know and they’ll know the lyrics and they’ll sway a little bit and get into it. But there’s still that separation with the foreigners at the front screaming and enjoying, clapping, creating the vibe. That’s something I do like about the Harley’s shows; because it’s such a small, intimate stage, the Chinese kids really get involved in it there and like it a lot. We’ve got seating down the side so the Chinese kids can sort of sit on the side and slowly crawl onto the dance floor and get into it a little bit.
When they see a band that they like they go mental for it and it’s awesome, and it’s always that unpredictable too. What band did I see? We saw one band at MAO Livehouse, more of a hardcore band, but yeh you’ve got girls in stilletos who look like they’ve just come from the office just screaming, and it’s awesome, it was wonderful. You get a lot of kids who turn around and go “this is soo good, I loved it, I’ve never seen a live show” and I’m like “where are you every other night of the week? This goes on every weekend! Where are you?”
[Chachy and F rock in] – See part 2 for more!
EVENT DETAILS
For the Rat On Nantong show, the guys will be hiring a 39-seat bus which will take fans and the bands down to Nantong to play at Void Live House. The bus will be leaving Inferno Bar – guests can buy a ticket on the bus for 80rmb, and the price includes a return trip and entry to the show.
Bands: The Boys (UK), Round Eye, XXYY and Watch Out
PLUS The Boys will be hitting up more cities – tell your friends!
